Joe Klein weighed in on Aluf Benn's column:
It's taken me decades to realize this. Most Israelis--especially those who live in Tel Aviv and environs--not only don't see settler types, they also don't see many Arabs. They live their lives, do their work, have fun at the beach. By contrast, when journos like me parachute in, we usually go to Jerusalem, where the government and a significant Arab population lives, and usually (in my case, at least,) combine it with a visit to the West Bank or Gaza. Most journalists based in Israel live in Jerusalem and spend lots of time in both communities. They are aware of the proliferation of settlements and they have experienced the outrageous conditions in the Palestinian territories.
Forget that Klein describes the far left wing Ha'aretz as "moderate liberal." Here he focuses on perhaps Benn's weakest point. The people in Tel Aviv aren't concerned about "settlements?" Please! Tel Aviv is one of the most liberal places in Israel. My guess is that in Tel Aviv you have a lot more sympathy for President Obama's stance on Israel than most cities in Israel. (And as far as the "outrageous conditions" in the Palestinian territories that he claims he is familiar with, what are they? Mansions?)
The point is that even those who normally would be sympathetic to American pressure on Israel see little sympathy from President Obama.
While I thought that Benn's op-ed was excellent, I was troubled by one aspect of it. I think it's that Benn wants to President Obama to sell Israelis on his vision of peace in the Middle East. In other words, Benn agrees with the substance of President Obama's view, just not the salesmanship.
The problem is that President Obama's views are pretty far from Israel's mainstream. It's a realization that past peace making didn't work. As Barry Rubin describes:
Between 1948 and 1992, the Israeli consensus was that the PLO and most Arab states want to destroy Israel. When--or if--the day comes that they're ready to negotiate seriously we'll see what happens.Then came the Oslo agreement and a huge shift. The governing view was that maybe the Palestinians and Arab states learned the cost of their intransigence enough to make peace possible. The left thought a deal could bring real peace; the right thought it was a trick leading to another stage of conflict on terms less favorable to Israel. But both expected a deal to materialize.
The year 2000, the Camp David failure, the Syrian and Palestinian rejection of generous offers, and Second Intifada destroyed illusions in Israel.
President Obama isn't just doing a poor job of selling his vision to Israel, he's selling an expired vision. Worse he doesn't seem to realize it.
One of the things Obama needs to address is our growing conviction that in his arrogance he underestimates our intelligence. He preaches that we need to rethink our positions while demonstrating very little understanding of the complexities we've long since worked through; he assures us public bilateral agreements made a mere four years ago never happened; he seems incapable of distinguishing between settlements even when the Palestinians have already recognised such distinctions, and his position is empowering them to renounce positions they've already accepted.
One PS: Look at the comments to Klein's column. They're absolutely chilling. They reads like excerpts from the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. Do Klein's fans bother him at all? Does the viciously anti-Israel (if not outright antisemitic) tone of nearly all comments - with little dissent - concern Klein at all? Or is the important thing to have sycophants who agree with his basic premise?
Yesterday I wrote about Benn's column too.
Crossposted on Yourish.
Posted by SoccerDad at July 29, 2009 6:58 AM"Look at the comments to Klein's column. They're absolutely chilling."
Comments into action:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/death_marches_worldwide/#
It won't take much to unleash the unspoken fury against Israelis/Zionist/Jews worldwide. Any time Israel acts to defend itself, the noise get louder, more bold and less restrained.
I know this is nearly a week old but I could not let this go by uncommented. Joe Klein is an idiot. You cannot go a single day in Tel Aviv without meeting, dealing, conversing with Arabs. Israeli Arabs make up nearly 20% of Israel's population,the statement is absurd. Further Arabs in Israel do not live in Ghettos, Haifa one of Israel's largest cities is almost 50% Arabs. These statements are delusional.
I would add for Joe Klein who is by his own admission seriously ill informed in general, that Jaffa & Tel Aviv are attached, and the heart of Tel Aviv is a 5 minute walk from Jaffa which itself sports a sizable Arab population, never mind the fact that Israeli Arabs live all over Tel Aviv, own businesses, work like everyone else!?
Further, this myth that is making the rounds in media lately about settlers & Tel Aviv is also idiotic. Petach Tikva, Kfar Saba, Rosh Ha-Ayin, each of these large prominent tel Aviv suburbs practically straddle the green line and so called settlements. they are each commercial economic & residential hubs - I state again this ignorance is par for the course for Klein at Time - He's just an ignoramus.
Nor do I need to explain to SD that those outrageous conditions Klein moans about, those are administered by elected Palestinian representatives under full autonomy.
Posted by: saus at August 6, 2009 2:51 PM