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July 24, 2009
Denying self defense
The other day, Charles noted that PM Netanyahu stated the obvious; that Israel's security fence was preventing terror.
That's part of it. But there's a bigger reason that there's little terror coming from the Fatah ruled areas: Israel destroyed much of the terror infrastructure there during Operations Defensive Shield. As former Defense Minister Moshe Arens wrote last year (h/t Noah Pollak):
As long as Israel seemed unable to find an effective answer to Palestinian terror [during the second intifada], the defeatists in our ranks claimed that terror could not be defeated by force, while the more cautious argued that terror could not be defeated by the use of force alone. The implication was that Israel had no choice but to concede to at least some of the terrorists' demands-that they must be given a "political horizon."But once the Israel Defense Forces and the security services began to seriously tackle Palestinian terror, following the massacre at the Park Hotel in Netanya in the spring of 2002, it quickly became clear that terror could be defeated by force. As a matter of fact, it could be defeated only by the use of force. The terrorists view any hints of Israeli willingness to give in to a portion of their essentially limitless demands as a sign of weakness, which only serves to encourage further acts of terror.
But Israel's victory over Palestinian terror, which put an end to the daily bouts of suicide bombings, also induced amnesia in the minds of some of Israel's leaders. The lesson was quickly forgotten.
It's nice that the New York Times and others promote the economic progress made by the Palestinians living in Judea and Samaria. However they never acknowledge that it wouldn't have been possible if Arafat (or his successors) were still running suicide factories there. Israel's military victory made the economic progress possible.
Regardless of what Israel does, whether it goes to war to stop terror or builds a wall, the world still complains. One gets the feeling that it isn't the lack of peace that bothers them, but that Israel has the gall to defend itself.
In response to the "Aqsa intifada" Israel launched Operation Defensive Shield to destroy the terror infrastructure that Arafat fostered even as he talked peace. The nadir of world reaction to Israel's effort to defend itself came when Israel was accused of massacring civilians in Jenin in the spring of 2002. The charge was false and was soon disproved but not before the UN and much of the media accepted the charge as false fact.
As part of Israel's response to the Arafat initiated terror, it started to build a wall to protect itself from infiltrators. And of course the PA took Israel to the International Court of "Justice" to issue a non-binding ruling finding the fence to be illegal under "international law."
Then in 2006 after Hezbollah breached the international border and kidnapped and killed Israeli soldiers, Israel launched a retaliatory war to move Hezbollah away from its northern border. Again calls went out that Israel was unnecessarily killing civilians. The nature of the media bias was so great that Marvin Kalb acknowledged that the media was a factor in deciding the war against Israel.
Finally a half year ago, Israel launched Operation Cast Lead to stop the rocket attacks coming from Gaza. Now we see, that the UN has launched an investigation into Israeli war crimes. Supported by "Human Rights" organizations and credulous media who accept any hearsay of Israeli misdeed as a verdict of guilty, no doubt the UN will condemn Israel. The UN really doesn't care that Israel was defending its citizens.
This is the clear pattern. Israel is the only country in the world that is deemed unfit to defend itself. If Israel acts in its own defense it is guilty. Of something.
Crossposted on Yourish.
Posted by SoccerDad at July 24, 2009 7:26 AM
Hamas Economic Crisis Reveals Gaza As A Just Terrorist Group Surrounded By Human Shields
Gaza: you can never have too many snickers bars
Peter's perverse principle
Fortunately they weren't violent tea party types
It Takes Burning Down A Summer Camp For UNRWA To Notice
What's the difference between "disgraced" and a "higher ethical standard?"
The messaging or the strategy
The first prejudice
A treasure trove of terror
What if obamacare applied to state lotteries?
Jews are guilty of living. It is illegal for a Jew to live. It couldn't be simpler. And that international attitude is not going to ever change.
Posted by: NormanF at July 24, 2009 8:43 AMmaybe if Israel would stop killing people holding white flags, shooting old men in the back, bombing food wharehouses and committing acts of terror and war crimes people might stop complaining. Israel was founded upon terrorism and it's alive and well there. Israel jews are savage animals.
Posted by: swizzle at July 24, 2009 11:09 AMSwizzle, you're an idiot. It is your type of mentality that is preventing peace in the Middle East.
Posted by: GW at July 24, 2009 11:23 AMThanks Swizzle. That seems like a fair and bananced way to view the situation... Seriously??! If Mexican gangs were firing rockets across the border into Texas, and the Mexicans wouldn't stop them, do you think that we'd be within our rights to go into Mexico and kick their butts? Or would it be different if the rockets were falling in Texas- but only on Jews... Everyone has the right to defend themselves.
Posted by: Matt at July 24, 2009 11:25 AMIt is a shame how people are so blind to overlook trouble makers and then want to condemn a people or nation when they retaliate
Posted by: Joe Howard at July 24, 2009 11:30 AMMatt - that would be a good point if Mexico were a refugee camp full of displaced Texans. I'm pro-Israel but that was a pathetic attempt at an analogy. There are factions on both sides that have tremendous amounts of blood on their hands and should be ashamed.
Posted by: ljs at July 24, 2009 11:51 AMI'm a middle of the road American who believes in Israels right to exist. I also believe in a Palestinian state. My problem w/the Israeli govt. is the use of disproportionate fire power on the palestinians......I'm sure I'll be labeled an anti-semite by the right wing crowd (i'll take that as a compliment) I'll also had no problem of building the wall until Israel decided to steal fertile land in the west bank from the palestinians and build the wall around those groves!! I'm shocked at the level of firepower Israel used in the gaza strip against civilians. I'm no fan of Hamas and believe they shouls be destroyed. what do you think Americans would do if Mexico took a chunk of Texas? I believe you need to go back to the 1967 borders, obviously w/some tweaks. also if I'm not mistaken your own govt. told the military not to take gaza or the west bank in 67 because of the issue w/palestinians but the military got punch drunk w/victory and took them anyway, your now paying the price!! fix it!! start to treat these people better or your going to lose people like me in the U.S. You are now the big guy on the block and nobody is going to overrun you like could've happened in 67 if not for your heroic govt. and military. start to act like it!!!
Like I said I'm a supporter of Israel but your losing me a little bit.
"Matt - that would be a good point if Mexico were a refugee camp full of displaced Texans. I'm pro-Israel but that was a pathetic attempt at an analogy. There are factions on both sides that have tremendous amounts of blood on their hands and should be ashamed.
Posted by: ljs at July 24, 2009 11:51 AM"
...........................................
Matt to the contrary it was a perfect analogy. The "palestinians" don't fire rockets because they are displaced, but because they want the destruction of Israel. It has been the palestinians who have repeatedly rejected statehood since it would mean acceptance of the Jewish state. They don't want a two-state solution. And btw it is the ARAB world which has purposely displaced the palestinians in order to be used as pawns against Israel. They are displaced because the arab countries didn't absorb them into their own countries.
d.h.cesana, Israel acquired the territories in a war of self-defense against several arab states. Furthermore these were never sovereign territories belonging to the palestinians. There was never in history a sovereign state of Palestine. The problem with people like you is that you have no clue. You say you're a supporter of Israel, but with friends like you, they don't need enemies.
Posted by: Laura at July 24, 2009 12:10 PMOops, the first part of my post should have been addressed to ljs. I am in agreement with Matt.
Posted by: Laura at July 24, 2009 12:19 PMagain, i'm pro israel but it just seems each side is so blind to any fair outlook on the situation. Yes, the other Arab states have treated the Palestinians as pawns. But Israel has killed tons of innocent people, broken UN agreements, and constantly forbids any sort of UN monitors coming close to seeing what goes on. Again, I'm pro-Israel but that doesn't mean I think they have Carte Blanche. It's absurd to compare the Palestinians to Mexico. C'mon. Seriously?
Posted by: ljs at July 24, 2009 12:24 PMLaura, I agree the six day war was for self defence, but the west bank and gaza weren't israel's either and palestinians live there, also remember all the palestinians who lived in israel proper b-4 they were kicked out!!as far as people like me w/no clue you need to wake up and start treating people like humans!! also the comment about being a friend to israel, you need people like me or you won't be receiving the 6 billion of U.S. tax dollars nor w/you be the big guy on the block w/out U.S. support!! WAKE UP....give these people a homeland
Posted by: dhcesana at July 24, 2009 1:35 PMIsrael receives the money from the US on the condition that she buys American military hardware; planes, tanks and so forth. America has as much to lose by ending loans to Israel.
Arabs were not kicked out of Israel by Jews. The arabs rejected the UN partition plan of 1947 and instead several Arab countries attacked Israel and Arab leaders ordered the Arabs to leave so they would be out of the way. In fact Israel encouraged them to stay. This is documented history. As far as treating people like humans, Israel has treated Arabs far better than their Arab brethren throughout the region. Palestinian refugees in Arab countries are treated like shit, they are denied jobs, education and even access to hospitals. Just recently Jordan stripped palestinians of their citizenship and in 1970 thousands of them were slaughtered by the Heshemite regime. When Judea and Samaria was under Israeli rule, they built hospitals and universities, the standard of living and life expectancy was greatly increased after 1967. dhcesana, you sound like a reasonable guy, but you ought to stop falling for the myths created by the Arabs and their western leftist apologists.
BTW why is it up to Israel to give them a homeland? The Arabs have plenty of land to give.
Posted by: Laura at July 24, 2009 7:28 PMAmerica has killed innocent people in Afghanistan and Iraq. This is what happens in war. But they are not purposely targeted. I'm really sick of Israel being singled out in this manner when it has done more than any other country to avoid civilian casualties during its military operations. And it shows by the fact that the IDF has the lowest ratio of civilian casualties than any other armed forces in the world. And also hamas and hezbollah have used civilians as human shields. That is the main cause of civilian casualties. It's this double standard that is so frustrating to Israelis and those of us who are supporters of Israel. No other country receives the amount of scrutiny that Israel does despite far greater death and destruction caused by other countries engaging in military operations.
Posted by: Laura at July 24, 2009 7:40 PM