In an op-ed that is fully supportive of the administration, What a Freeze Can't Do, David Ignatius lets a little inconvenient truth slip out.
That doesn't mean any breakthroughs are imminent, however. The more the administration pressures Israel, the more concessions the Arabs seem to want.
Of course at the end of the article Ignatius writes something that requires a little expansion:
The settlements issue illustrates why the Arab-Israeli problem drives people crazy. Even if you achieve a breakthrough, there's always another snag ahead. White House officials grumble about Israeli intransigence, but they're also worried about "squishy" Arab promises and demands for preconditions. "Don't keep faxing it in, saying I gave you a peace plan in 2002," complains the senior White House official.
Let's be clear about something: All the major concrete breakthroughs have come from Israel: recognizing the PLO, ceding control of seven cities to the Palestinians in 1995, completely withdrawing from southern Lebanon and Gaza. The responses have been the strengthening the likes of Al Aqsa Martryrs Brigades, Hamas and Hezbollah, not peace.
But of course the harping on "settlements" has given the Arab world an excuse for never moving beyond "squishy" words.
You've got me. It is the triumph of ideology over reality. And it is evidence as to just how deceitful was Obama's campaign rhetoric with regard to Israel and the Middle East. We know what he said then. It bears no resemblance to the current approach. Had he revealed his hand during the campaign certainly then-candidate Clinton, who professed to be a great friend of Israel, would have seized on the issue.
There's more to that too. Those of us who questioned how someone with Barack Obama's ideological background would be pro-Israel were regularly dismissed as misinformed, if not racist, cranks. Now President Obama's hand has been revealed. Is anyone paying attention?
Crossposted on Yourish.
Posted by SoccerDad at June 28, 2009 7:09 AMisrael was founded upon terrorism and hasn't kept it's word on anything relevant. they seem more interested in killing women, babies and kids or committing war crimes than they do finding peace. their latest attempt at a two state solution is a joke, they are nothing more than animals.
Posted by: SWIZZLE at June 28, 2009 10:19 AMIt's an organized campaign by judeo-nazi extremists to hurt our interests in the Muslim and Arab world.
There are 1.5 billion Muslims, 6 million of them are US citizens. There are 400 million Arabs. There are only 14 million Jews worldwide, 2 million of them - Jewish radicals who keep the whole world hostage. So, whom we should support ? Exterminate Jewish extremists and make the world better place to live.
Yep, and the Palestinians are peace loving sheep herders that haven't harmed anyone. Their military wears uniforms, and never hides behind civilians. I suppose that the rockets that have been falling in Israel for the last decade or so have been launching themselves, as the Palestinians would never attempt to kill civilians on purpose.....
Neither side is precisely blameless here. And I can understand where both are coming from. Israel got a fair percentage of its territory in the 1967 war, and the Palestinians are still pissed about that. And having the Israeli's come onto their land, build settlements, and continue to expand, in violation of international law, would tend to annoy me as well.... Has Israel ever recognized any official borders for their country? My guess would be "no".
Posted by: Brian at June 28, 2009 10:43 AMDear SWIZZLE,
MY oh my,you are a rather angry Homo-sapien.
Take a few deep breaths,substitute "Israel was founded on terrorism" with "The future Palestinian state...........".
And then go back to your Camel.
Dear ALLEN,You are right about one thing "....1.5 billion Muslims,6 million of them U.S.Citizens".
Yep,the good Ol U S of A is in deep Sh1t.
And your comment "Exterminate Jewish Extremists"reminds me of another Middle eastern Crackpot.
So ALLEN, what should we do with Muslim Extremists?????
Isreal recognizes bulldozers, phosphorous bombs and racial hatred. Why do we put up with these troublemakers? Cut off all US aid now, stop selling weapons to kill civilians for 20 cents on the dollar. The US owes these people NOTHING! How many US soldiers died in WW II. Why have we never found out why the isreali military attacked the USS Liberty? Why won't our own navy acknowledge it. Jews have made themselves unwelcome everywhere they have ever gone. Read the Bible.
Posted by: 20/20 at June 28, 2009 11:35 AMJews "are nothing more than animals."
"Jewish radicals who keep the whole world hostage. Exterminate Jewish extremists and make the world better place to live."
Swizzle, Allen - Hitler would be proud of both of you. People like you are the reason why Israel is so concerned about its security.
"Has Israel ever recognized any official borders for their country?"
Yes. Israel recognized, through international treaties and the UN, its borders with Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon. The only border that hasn't been recognized is the one with Syria. What keeps getting lost in the media is that the West Bank and Gaza are not "Palestinian land." The UN treaties and resolutions clearly state that the 1949-1967 ceasefire lines are not borders. The land is in dispute, and each side is building on it. Jews lived there for thousands of years until the mid-20th century, when they were slaughtered and kicked out by the Arabs.
Posted by: Jerry at June 28, 2009 11:41 AMThe moonbat scum are out in full force. Is there a way to control this? Where are the Soccerdad regulars?
Brian seems resonable enough however you are wrong about settlements.
Eugene Rostow, the late U.S. legal scholar and diplomat who played the leading U.S. role in negotiating 242, wrote in 1991 that:
[T]he Jewish right of settlement in Palestine west of the Jordan River, that is, in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip … has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a recognized peace between Israel and its neighbors … the Jews have the same right to settle [in the West Bank] as they have to settle in Haifa.
Posted by: Laura at June 28, 2009 11:42 AMThank you Colin,Jerry and Laura for adding some sanity to the comments.
Though, Colin, I appreciate less colorful language.
Posted by: soccer dad at June 28, 2009 11:57 AMThat figure of six million muslims in the US is CAIR progaganda. There are maybe 2-3 million muslims in the US. But with ACORN doing our next census, the number of muslims in America should sharply increase to about 12 million.
Posted by: Laura at June 28, 2009 12:22 PMCAIR? ACORN? Who (cairs)? AIPAC is a military organization that aims to plunder and manipulate the US. Hank Paulson, Bernanke, Greenberg. How about Perle, Wolfowitz, Cristol, Rumsfeld and all of those terrorists.
I think it's time Israel set a deadline for the return of its soldier, and if that deadline passes without the return to formally annex Gaza and remove the Palestinians there.
It's time for the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world to produce a significant concession.
Posted by: Scott Hedrick at June 28, 2009 12:56 PM'Jews lived there for thousands of years until the mid-20th century, when they were slaughtered and kicked out by the Arabs.'
that is revisionism at its best. here havent been more than a few thousands jews living in the 'holy land' until end 19th century, when they started migrating to palestine by the thousands, basically robbing the natives of their land. It were the palestinians that were slaughtered by the jews, not the other way around. The palestinians have been nothing but the victim in this whole situation. It is unbelievable that propanda has managed to make the israelis look like victims of arab terrorism, while it is the opposite that is the case. The idea that israelis have been the ones doing the concessions is absurd. They live on robbed land in houses that belonged to palestinians once. They have never given back anything.Not even gaza if you really think about it.
I wonder when this revisionism is finally going to stop. For people that are so angry with denials of history to the point they put people in jail for it, they are exceptionally good at it. I think we should start putting people in jail for nabka denial as well.
None of it means anything until .... drum roll please.... the Palestinians get one voice and the same for Lebanon... without Iranian or Russian influence.
Posted by: Dougie at June 28, 2009 1:09 PMWhere are the Soccerdad regulars?
I just got back from davening. These moonbat (and net-Nazi) invasions mean that a Soccer Dad post is being featured by Yahoo. So for every moron who shows up here screaming about "killing babies" there are probably scores of reasonable people who took the post in the spirit it was intended and who are now better informed than before.
Posted by: Yitzchak Goodman at June 28, 2009 1:11 PMIsreal is an agressive state and the US should end support of it period. I for one am sick of having my money sent there. Anyone who goes on these blogs and reads the posts themselves will see the bigotry and hatred that permeates the Israeli's. Anyone that does not agree with the actions of these people is attacked as an antisemite or nazi as if the Israelis held the corner on the market on the jewish religion and to disagree with them was to disagree with god. Fortunately there are plenty of good jews that do not support Israels actions.
Settlements are a roadblock for sure and Israel will have to give them up if they want peace. The problem is that Israel values land more than peace. The goal is to restore cannan no? Peace certainly will not facilitate this...only bloodshed will. Israel wants all the land for jews and no one else...all the bogus concessions they give are just an act to confuse and divert attention from the real adgenda.
If Israel wants peace it will give up settlements for it. If israel wants land...it will give up peace for it.
Posted by: D-Man at June 28, 2009 1:27 PMthat is revisionism at its best. here havent been more than a few thousands jews living in the 'holy land' until end 19th century, when they started migrating to palestine by the thousands, basically robbing the natives of their land.
Israel was always an important intellectual center of the Jewish people, even when the population numbers were small. The Jewish presence started increasing in the mid-19th century before the first Zionist arrivals, and Jews became a majority in Jerusalem, Palestine's most significant city, before the first aliyah. And the early Zionist olim purchased land they lived on. Judaism is the only religion that actually emphasizes living in Israel. When people say that Jerusalem is "holy to three faiths," those three faiths are Judaism and two of its daughter religions. Jews created literature in Hebrew, the world's only uniquely Palestinian language, in every century since ancient times. The Arabs tried to thwart the implementation of the UN partition plan by force and it worked out badly for them although Jordan's British-led army still managed to ethnically cleanse the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem. These all seem like rather large facts to me. Why do they all clash with your narrative?
Posted by: Yitzchak Goodman at June 28, 2009 1:34 PMLaura,
No one said that jews were scum...it was Israelis, or Jewish radicals. No better than muslim or christian extremeists. Like the Bat Ayin underground...Jewish settlers that botched blowing up and Arab girls school. Not all Jews are bad...and news flash...not all jews are good...like anyone...only human...not gods. We are adressing the bad ones here...the radical, agressive type.
Invoking fiction to prove your point only makes you look guilty or ignorant.
Posted by: D-Man at June 28, 2009 1:37 PMLaura...sorry that last one was for Jerry. My Bad!
Posted by: D-Man at June 28, 2009 1:45 PM According to the post that I responded to, 1/7th of the world's Jews should be exterminated. By comparison, Hitler killed 1/3 of the Jews. In every group of people, there are good and bad- Jews, Arabs, Americans, leftists, rightists, clergy, etc.
In 1870, Mark Twain wrote that Palestine is empty, and very few people live there. There were some Jews and some Arabs, but not many of either.
In 1921, the Arabs launched a pogrom and killed loads of Jews. In 1929, the Arabs killed 67 members of the 3200 year old Jewish community of Hebron. Pregnant women were cut open, so their fetuses could be stabbed. Today, if a Jew wishes to return to that community, s/he is branded a "settler", even if their family was there for the past 3200 years.
The Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem, where Jews have lived for 3000 years (except between 1948-67, when they were ethnically cleansed by Jordan), is in eastern Jerusalem. How is the Jewish Quarter considered to be the Arab side?
No one is paying attention. The settlements are a complete sideshow. Even if every single Jew was gone from Yesha tomorrow, the Arabs would still not sit down and talk to Israel.
Posted by: NormanF at June 28, 2009 4:31 PMall the 'concrete beakthru for peace has not come from israel. if you frame everything in terms of what Israel wanted, it made huge concessions. but if you frame things in terms of what israel was legally entitled to under international law, then israel has made precisely and exactly zero concessions. all the concessions have been made by the palestinians.
Under Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, it�s illegal for any occupying country to transfer its population to Occupied Territories. All of the settlements, all of the settlements are illegal under international law. No dispute. The World Court in July 2004 ruled that all the settlements are illegal. The Palestinians were willing to concede 50% � 50% of the Israeli settlements in the West Bank. That was a monumental concession, going well beyond anything that was demanded of them under international law.
You assume that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies, it does not.
Still name one concrete action the Palestinians have taken in the name of peace? They didn't amend their charter, they didn't stop terrorism, they didn't stop incitement.
Israel has ceded territory, changed its curricula transferred arms and money.
Again, please tell me one thing that the Palestinians have done to promote peace.
Posted by: soccer dad at June 29, 2009 8:49 AMits you who is assuming that the Fourth Geneva Convention does not apply.The World Court in July 2004 ruled that all the settlements are illegal under international law.
Definitely gotta give this one to sass.
Posted by: LanceThruster at June 29, 2009 12:57 PM38-40% of the UN's resolutions are specifically against only Israel. There are several UN committees that specifically target Israel and nobody else. The UN has hired members of Hamas' terrorist wing and allowed Hamas to fire rockets from its schools and compounds. It has even transported armed Hamas members in its vehicles. When the UN or its court rules against Israel, it's about as fixed as a trial involving African-Americans in the rural South 70 years ago. While the UN is so focused on Israel, it virtually ignores the millions of deaths in the Congo, North Korean torture camps, Tibet, Sierra Leone, Algeria, etc.
Posted by: Jerry at June 29, 2009 11:49 PM Actually the Fourth Geneva Convention doesn't apply, legally speaking, because, for legal reasons, the West Bank isn't occupied. Since it was never recognized as being part of any country (only Britain and Pakistan recognized Jordan's annexation of it), and never had recognized borders, it is not, by legal definition, occupied. When Israel captured it after being attacked by Jordan, the Arabs insisted that the old ceasefire line not be used as a border.
If Sass is so concerned about moving populations into occupied territory, I'm wondering if s/he can shows us some links to places where s/he posted to complain about China moving millions of ethnic Chinese (Han) into Tibet to overwhelm the local population. Tibetans, unlike Palestinians, are not allowed to practice their religion or speak their language in public. Even pictures of the Dalai Lama are forbidden. I donate annually to help the Tibetans. I wonder if Sass cares about occupied people (and posts about them) or if s/he just wants to pick on Israel.
jerry -if you donate to help the tibetian people and then support israel in its colonisation of arab land, that just makes you a hypocrite.
Posted by: sass at June 30, 2009 2:01 AMNice try Sass, that was a blatantly political - not a legal - decision.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jul/10/israel3
The decision, endorsed by all but the American judge on the 15-person bench, is non-binding. But the Palestinian leadership said it would use the ruling to seek UN action against Israel.
Posted by: soccer dad at June 30, 2009 4:52 AMonly israel says it was a political ruling.it still doesn't change the fact that the World Court ruled the settlements illegal along with the security barrier. since israel refuses to recognise the World Court and any decision made by the general assembly and the security council, doesn't it prove that israel is a 'rouge state'.
it isn't a surprise that the american judge did not endorse the courts decision.its just another example of the US protecting israels illegal actions. hopefully the obama administration will stop its bias support and join the rest of the world in condemming israels colonialization of arab lands.
Read what I quoted from the Guardian (not known for being pro-Israel): the decision was non binding.
As an earlier commenter noted: getting a UN related organization to condemn Israel is really not that hard. It's like what they say about grand juries here: they could indict a ham sandwich. But of course these organizations have one standard for Israel and no standards for anyone else.
Posted by: soccer dad at June 30, 2009 8:27 AMi know the 'poor poor israel the victim argument' and how israel won american blessing for the notion that it was not they, but the palestinians, who had been responsible for all the blockages in the peace process so far, that it was their 'acts of terrorism, crime and hostilities', their 'incitement', their 'unilateral acts' which would have to be reined in if the peace process was to continue- not israels distastrously counter productive settlement policies, its systematic violation of its pledges to carry out incremental troop withdrawals, the anti arab violence and incitement of its settlers, its land expropriations and home demolitions, its economic blockages, the collective punishments, and what amounted to ethnic cleansing by stealth in jerusalem.
in theory the US was meant to keep an eagle eye on the 'compliance' of both sides of the peace process.but in practice it was all one way. there was never any indication that it seriously intended to attempt any curbs on israels settlement program, let alone punish it with any diminution in that never ending cornucopia of economic and military aid ,running at over 13 million a day, which merely incourages the likes of netanayahu in their stubborn pursuit of policies and practices to which officially at least ,the USA itself has been opposed.
I know the poor, poor palestinians as victim argument that it was not their excessive incitement and terrorizing of Israeli civilians which has been an obstacle to peace. Because according to the demented leftists, these people can never be held accountable for their actions and for their self-inflicted plight.
Posted by: Laura at June 30, 2009 12:14 PM"all the concessions have been made by the palestinians".
--------------------------------
You have to be kidding. Name just ONE concession made by the palestinians.
from the palestinians point of view, theirs was a struggle for decolonization of a kind which, normally, the whole world, including USA ,recognizes as legitimate. yet it was only their 'recognition' of the jewish state, and 'its right to exist' on territory they considered rightfully theirs, only their renunciation, unique in contemporary history, of the usual objective of such struggles, sovereignty in their own land, which enabled the peace process to keep going at all.
You're completely out of your mind. The "palestinians" have never till this day recognized the Jewish state's right to exist.
And for the millionth time, the territory does not righfully belong to a made up people called the palestinians. The Jews aren't colonizers, they are the indigenous people as you well know.
Posted by: Laura at June 30, 2009 7:29 PMFurthermore Jerusalem was never the capital of any muslim state. The muslims have no sovereign right to any part of Jerusalem.
Posted by: Laura at June 30, 2009 7:31 PMSass:
Israel has never colonized Arab land, nor has it ethnically cleansed Jerusalem. The Arabs were offered the West Bank and Gaza in the 1930's, 1947, 1967, and 2000, and rejected it each time.
Jordan ethnically cleansed Jerusalem of its Jews in 1948. It destroyed 57 of Jerusalem's 58 synagogues, and left no Jews in the Jewish Quarter. Arabs make up the same percentage of Jerusalem's citizens as they did in 1967. How is that ethnic cleansing.
I believe that land belongs to the earliest traceable people who inhabited it, if they were forcibly kicked out and desire to return. Therefore, I support and donate to the Jews of Israel, the Tibetans, American Indians, Aborigines, and others.
You keep complaining about kicking people out, colonizing, ethnic cleansing, etc., yet you never accuse anybody else of doing it. I think that you either have something against Israelis or only care about Palestinians, not victims of repression across the world. If it's the latter, it makes me wonder why people who have real suffering, such as North Koreans, Darfurians, Tibetans, Kurds, etc., don't mean much to you.
Also, I have yet to hear from you about the Jews from Arab countries who lost everything (sometimes even their lives) when they were expelled from their homes in the 1940's-1950's.
Laura:
I agree with most of what you said, but there are also extreme rightists (such as the KKK, neo-Nazis, and others) who side with the Palestinians. It is generally the "demented" people on the fringes of either spectrum who obsess with picking on Israel.
from the palestinians point of view, theirs was a struggle for decolonization of a kind which
This isn't you, Sass, is it? Identify your source--it's the honest thing to do.
Posted by: Yitzchak Goodman at June 30, 2009 9:40 PMjerry, maybe you need to research who the earliest traceable people in israel/palestine [land of cannaan] really are and who really are the indigenous people of the area[land of cannaan]- its easy , just google in 'indigenous people of israel/palestine'.
this is a zionist propoganda site promoting zionist myths which have long been exposed ,not a web site justifing the crimes against aboriginees, tibetians ,etc.
why would the arabs accept a offer to lands they aready own. thats the problem with you zionist- you are negotiating with land that ,according to international law, has a owner. if i was to occuppy your house and then let my cousins move into the lounge room, bedrooms and kitchen and then offered to give you back the dinning room and toilet[i control the hallway and you must ask for permission to travel between rooms]and if you resist i can always claim you refused to accept my generous offer.
next time your donating money to all the NGOs such as amesty, human rights watch, b' thelem,etc maybe you should read the lastest report on israel and the occuppied palestinian territories..
"jerry, maybe you need to research who the earliest traceable people in israel/palestine [land of cannaan] really are and who really are the indigenous people of the area[land of cannaan]"
......................................
What is the point in bringing up the Cannaans? What's at issue here is between Jews and the Arab-muslims, and the Jewish presence in Israel long preceded the muslim presence. Jews have greater rights to the land than the Arabs-muslims.
Furthermore you undermine your own argument in claiming repeatedly that the so-called palestinians are the indigenous people.
Posted by: Laura at July 1, 2009 12:10 PMlaura, lets pretend you didn't write this last comment
Posted by: sass at July 1, 2009 1:22 PM
sass you are good at pretending considering all the fiction you post here.
Posted by: Laura at July 1, 2009 7:11 PMyour ignorance is only match by your arrogrance which is on par with your stupidity. i hate to call people 'stupid' but in your case i'll make a exception because you really are stupid.
a religion is not a ethnicity, its a religion, not a race of people. you have this jews verses muslim logic which is so far off coarse its not funny.
Posted by: sass at July 1, 2009 10:32 PMJudaism is considered (by its adherents) to be both a religion and a nationality. It is that element of nationality that the PA and its sympathizers, such as yourself deny. (And it's interesting that you claim that there's such a thing as a "semite" and yet deny that Jews are a race. Yes I know that "semite" is meant to included Arabs too - and thus inoculate themselves against charges of racism - but of course it is a phony construct.)
The claim that the Palestinians are Canaanites contradicts their claim that they are Arabs. Arabs are indigenous to the Arabian peninsula. For the most part that's where the Palestinians are really from. They are occupiers of the land.
Posted by: soccer dad at July 2, 2009 12:59 AMarabs are indigenous to the arab pennisula and the surrounding territories including north africa, palestine and whose people anywhere in the middle east whose mother toungue is arabic, reguardless of religion.
Posted by: sass at July 2, 2009 5:28 AMSass,
Your expansive definition of "indigenous" renders the word meaningless.
Posted by: soccer dad at July 2, 2009 6:28 AMwe are just travelling in circles. maybe you should study greek mythology which you'll soon discover is a lot more entertaining that jewish mythology. i wonder what a greek jew would say when he relies he not greek .
implicit in jewish mythology, and actually stated in some zionist propoganda and repeated here, is the notion that the arabs first came to palestine in the 7th century, at the time when they were being converted to the moslem faith. this is simply zionist propoganda which is not true. the moslem arab conquest of palestine did not involve any mass immigration from the arabs of the arab peninsula into palestine or any colonization of that country. the number of invaders was small and were assimulated by the indigenous population. many of the orginal inhabitants were converted to islam, thus the predominantly arab christians population became predominantly arab moslem.the first israelite occupation of palestine was only an episode in the history of a arab country which has been occupied at one time or another by most powers of world history.
Actually Arabs are NOT indigenous to north Africa, Palestine etc. They are only indigenous to the Arabian peninsula. Everywhere else Arabs exist is through centuries of violent conquest.
On the other hand Jews are indigenous to the land of Israel.
Posted by: Laura at July 2, 2009 11:48 AM If the Jews aren't indigenous to Israel, then why do archaeologists keep digging up synagogues, Jewish ritual baths, things with Hebrew writing, etc.? These date back over 3000 years, up until the present.
The Jews are an ethnicity as well as a religion, just like Cherokee Indians (for example) are members of both the Cherokee people (ethnicity) and the Cherokee religion. It is also why, for example, Jews from Iraq can match the blood tissue type and DNA of Jews from Germany more easily than they can to non-Jews from Iraq.
The Arabs have not ruled in Palestine, except for one brief period many centuries ago. Before the Jews, there was 30 years of English rule. Before that was 400 years of Turkish rule. If you think that the Arabs ruled Palestine before the Jews, then please tell me the name of the last Arab ruler, the name of the currency, etc.
here are two links which should answer all your questions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people#DNA_and_genetic_studies
just in case you miss the chapter which states:
Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[11][92] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times", albeit religiously first Christianized then largely Islamized, and all eventually culturally Arabized.[11] Referring to those of the Muslim faith more specifically, it reaffirmed that Palestinian "Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan." Geneticist Michael Hammer praised "the study for 'focusing in detail on the Jewish and Palestinian populations.'"[11]
Posted by: sass at July 2, 2009 11:22 PMi always thought the 'Cherokee people' were one tribe of many which make up the 'americian indians'.
Posted by: sass at July 3, 2009 3:28 AMGenetic link to the ancient Hebrews
http://www.amazon.com/DNA-Tradition-Genetic-Ancient-Hebrews/dp/1932687130
laura, don't take my word that 'jews are not a ethnicity' ;take Dale Amos's words. this is what was recently stated on this web site :
'The crux of the explanation is that although the use of the phrase "Jewish descent" was inappropriate because Judaism is a religion and not an ethnicity--nevertheless many Jews consider Judaism to be their ethnicity and their culture'
by Daled Amos
It's a biological fact that Jews around the world are linked genetically. You cannot argue against biology.
Posted by: Laura at July 4, 2009 11:33 AMWhy do you think there exists a Jewish bone marrow registry? Because donors and recipients need to be genetically matched and Jewish patients generally require Jewish stem cell donors.
Posted by: Laura at July 4, 2009 11:44 AMpalestinian muslims are linked genetically to arab jews.
european jews are genetically linked to christian europeans.
and come to think of it, man is genetically linked to the ape.
Nitwit, I've just explained that there is a Jewish bone marrow registry. If that is not proof of a genetic link amongst Jews than what is? Are you that dense? Ashkenazi Jews are linked closer genetically to Saphardic Jews than they are to European gentiles.
Studies of Diaspora communities revealed that Jewish people around the globe are closely related to one another, distinct from their host communities, and share a common geographical origin in the Middle East. Why do you continue to argue against science? http://www.amazon.com/DNA-Tradition-Genetic-Ancient-Hebrews/dp/1930143893
Posted by: Laura at July 4, 2009 11:56 PMscience recognizes judaism as a religion. only some jews incorrectly think of themselves as a ethnicity.
You are really pathetic. For the third time, why don't you try explaining why there is a separate Jewish bone marrow registry if Jews are not genetically linked.
Posted by: Laura at July 5, 2009 11:54 AMthe following is from their web site which i doubt you even bothered to check why the 'jews have there own bone marrow registry'
'Ezer Mizion established its registry in 1998 to increase the pool of Jewish potential donors. Israel, home to an entire spectrum of Jewish communities and ethnic backgrounds, is the natural location for a Jewish bone marrow registry.'
http://www.ezermizion.org/Bone_Marrow_Registry/38.htm
because jews lived in isolated communities and tended to marry only with the community it is more likely a polish jew can find 'chances for a match ' within the polish jewish community.
same with jews from russia who are more likely to find a match within the russian jewish community.
if anything this proves that 'jews' are made up of many diffent ethnic backgrounds- nitwit.
Enough Sass. Any further comments on this thread by you will be relegated to Spam. You have nothing of value to add, and frankly have had nothing of value from the start.
You can accept the view of the antisemites of the world that Jews are nothing more than a religion. At least have the honesty to admit that your view comports with the prevailing fashions of those who hate Jews.
BTW, have you ever heard of the Kohen gene?
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f03/web2/tliben.html
Posted by: soccer dad at July 5, 2009 4:41 PMi have heard of the Kohen gene and that NOT all jews have it.
Posted by: sass at July 5, 2009 7:34 PMWider genetic studies of diverse present day Jewish communities show a remarkable genetic cohesiveness. Jews from Iran, Iraq, Yemen, North Africa and European Ashkenazim all cluster together with other Semitic groups, with their origin in the Middle East. A common geographical original can be seen for all mainstream Jewish groups studied [Science News, October 3, 1998]. This genetic research has clearly refuted the libel that the Ashkenazi Jews are not related to the ancient Hebrews, but are descendants of the Kuzar tribe -- a pre-10th century Turko-Asian empire which reportedly converted en masse to Judaism. Researchers compared the DNA signature of the Ashkenazi Jews against those of Turkish-derived people, and found no correspondence.
Posted by: Laura at July 5, 2009 7:43 PMsoccardad, i challenge you to repeat one antisemetic comment made by me. my jewish neighbours ,who welcome me to friday night shabat, will be surprised to know that i'm antisemetic and a hater of jews.
so your logic is- if i disagree with your view that 'jews are a ethnicity' , that makes me a antisemite. most of the world must be antisemetic then.
i'm sorry i can't add 'nothing of value'to your myths and propoganda site. maybe my problem is i recognize the palestinians as human beings, people with rights and a home.
Posted by: sass at July 6, 2009 7:22 AMYou sure as hell don't recognize the Jews as human beings, people with rights and a home. THAT is what makes you an anti-Semite. And the fact that you continue to deny the DNA evidence.
Posted by: Laura at July 6, 2009 11:54 AM