Soccer Dad

"Forrest Gump", the movie, stated it best! "Stupid is as stupid does."

Well, if I were Iranian, I'd probably be happier (note qualification) with the Ayatollah than the Shah of Iran. It's not perfect, but it's an improvement. God forbid any country be nationalist except for Israel. Or have nuclear weapons for that matter....

constructivecritic is a deranged lunatic. If you would be happier under a sharia system than in the westernized Iran under the Shah, by all means please move to Iran. I don't think the women who are being beaten in the streets, stoned and flogged by regime thugs because they are dressed un-islamic would agree with you, nor would homosexuals, students, dissidents, journalists etc.

It's ironic that you mention nationalism since the islamic revolution and sharia system in fact usurped Iranian nationalism. Islam destroyed the indigenous Persian culture of Iran. To be a devout muslim is to actually place loyalty to islam and the establishment of a greater islamic caliphate above one's nation. This is why the "moderate" rafsanjani is willing to sacrifice the Iranian nation in a first strike against Israel since he believes it would be for the greater good of islam.

Which brings me to my final point that no way should this insane islamic regime be allowed nuclear weapons and we should do whatever it takes to stop them.

constructivecritic epitomizes the insanity of the left.

As a left-leaning supporter of Israel, I'm not the least bit enamored of the fascist regime in Tehran, and I don't know anyone on "the left" who is. Why would they be? After all, it's the left and liberals that typically are the strongest supporters of women's rights, gay rights, etc. That said, there's nothing "deranged" or "insane" about his comment, just confusion. Just like Laura's confusion about what a truly "left" mindset is. If you want to win the argument about Iran, insulting people by calling them deranged and insane, when they're simply mistaken, isn't the way to do it. That used to be commonly understood in the Jewish community, but self-defeating, Iranian-style slander techniques unfortunately have permeated parts of our community too.

No steve, people like constructivecritic are not mistaken, they are malicious. You cannot be so oblivious as to not know what the Iranian regime stands for. They make it perfectly clear. The westerm left has clearly formed an alliance with islamo-fascists. Who do you think is marching alongside muslims in anti-Israel, anti-semitic and anti-American protests and the myriad of anti-Israel, anti-Semitic and anti-American activities on campus?

Getting back to my earlier post about islam vs Iranian nationalism, here is a direct quote:

"We do not worship Iran; we worship Allah," the Ayatollah Khomeini said in 1979. "I say let this land burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world."

"Why would they be? After all, it's the left and liberals that typically are the strongest supporters of women's rights, gay rights, etc".
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Sorry Steve but I don't hear liberals speak out about the treatment of women and gays in the muslim world. I'm not saying there hasn't been any instances of them doing on occasion, but its a very low priority. You can't deny that the left focuses far more attention on bashing Israel then on the human rights atrocities in muslim nations.

And you can't deny that being a left-leaning supporter of Israel makes you an oddity.

Laura - I have a policy that I try to generally follow: I try to look past differences in cultures to understand what's really going on. I'm not, by any means, a supporter of Iran. I do not, however, feel comfortable telling the entire world that a society which embraces hyper-sexual attire, greedy "ends justify the means" business practices, and other predominantly western characteristics is the way they must live. I have had many arguments with others, especially women, who seem to think that a woman's freedom is measured by how much of her body she can display in public. I'm not saying that I support the idea of forcing women to wear multiple layers of clothing in 90 degree weather, just that it's a different culture and I understand where they are coming from. Here in America, women are very confused - they simultaneously complain about being disrespected and treated as if their only legitamate purpose or function is sex, as if they couldn't be intelligent or hard-working, or any other positive quality while going out of their way highlight their physical attractiveness. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a woman with a low-cut cleavage shirt complain that people keep looking at her breasts. My point is that, it might not be the way I want to live, but the fact that an overwhelming majority of arabs do want to live that way makes me question the logic of imposing western-style commercialized immorality on them in the name of democracy.

"My point is that, it might not be the way I want to live, but the fact that an overwhelming majority of arabs do want to live that way makes me question the logic of imposing western-style commercialized immorality on them in the name of democracy".
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The overwhelming majority of muslim MEN want women to live that way. Women aren't given the choice. So doesn't the islamic way of life itself IMPOSE upon people how to live? It sounds to me like you are defending the brutality that muslim men inflict upon women and others who don't fall in line. You sound like a misogynist.

America isn't imposing anything on the arab world, we freed Iraqis from a brutal dictator. Obviously you don't believe they should be free. You are the typical western leftist who Bush aptly described as having "the soft bigotry of low expectations".

Laura: WTF? "we freed Iraqis from a brutal dictator" - There are countless people who could use our help, most a lot more than the Iraqis! The Palestinians have been suffering under the brutal Israeli occupation for 60 years, the Tibetans have been suffering under the merciless repression of the Chinese communists for just as long, the people of Darfur are the subject of genocide, and those are just the tip of the iceberg! The invasion of Iraq was probably the single WORST idea that the U.S. gov't has acted on in the last hundred years. As a result of our invasion of Iraq, Iran has ascended to become a powerhouse in the region, the Taliban and Al Qaida have not only secured the southern portion of Afghanistan, but are very likely to destabilize nuclear-armed Pakistan and our military is too overstretched to do anything about it, we have spent trillions on two wars with no end in sight (meaning that we wasted the political and financial capital necessary to fight any real threats, putting us in a position similar to that following WWI where the axis powers were able to spread so easily because the world didn't have the money or stomach for another war), and we will have to spend years, maybe decades repairing our relationship with our allies. Think about it.

As far as the rest: first you repeatedly call me an anti-semite, now you call me a misogynist. What is wrong with you? I agree that women are discriminated against in much of the Arab world, but I don't agree that it is impossible for the Islamic morality to exist without such discrimination. Women are treated as second-class citizens across all cultures and borders. As I said previously, I refuse to accept the premise that a woman's freedom is proportionate to the amount of her body she can flaunt in public.