Soccer Dad

WHEN IS THE STATE of ISREAL going to pay for the ARAB LAND AND homes stolen fron 1948 they want compensation its time to pay up and stop all the murder in the middle east they are the most hated people in the middle East guess why

Expect a dufus who doesn't know the history of the Levant to make a mindless rant like that.

The biggest most perpetuated myth is that Israel "stole" the land from Arabs. In fact it was given to the Jews by the UN in 1948. The Palestinians were also given a more than generous portion of the British Mandate. Instead of taking the offer, the surrounding Arab countries thought they would make a better deal by invading and annexing the Palestinian territory. Israel fought back and gained ownership where the armistice line stopped. That is the nature of the borders of ALL countries hypocrite. Nevertheless, the Palestinian people will eventually get their own state when the extremists can behave.

If i'm not mistaken, prior to 1948, Arab nations could give a shit less if Palestinians lived or died.

Look at them now...basic supplies are restricted because of psychopaths who insist on launching rockets. And when there isn't a restriction Arab nations send meager rations.

Matt absolutely right:Palestine will get its land and recognition when it decides to return to the human race. When they keep acting like barbarians, they'll continue to be treated like barbarians.

"The biggest most perpetuated myth is that Israel "stole" the land from Arabs. In fact it was given to the Jews by the UN in 1948."

Thats exactly the point. The UN giving land to a flood of immigrants from North America, Europe and parts of Asia is seen as a "theft" of land.

And while it is true that Israel was treated roughly thereafter, they certainly did not make things easier by maintaining their borders. They expanded them. When Nazi Germany expanded their borders in 1939, and 1940, and 1941, the world did not accept it. Israel, although being attacked first in SOME of their wars, cannot simply annex land from others and expect the world at large to accept it. If it was any other people besides the Jews, I would guess there would be a coalition put together to fight such evil acts, like Nato fought Milosevic for "expanding" Serbia's borders.

Listen,Jews and Israelis are human and as far I have seen mostly very kind and good people, exception happen anywhere without breed,creed religion or what ever.
Palestinians need to wake up, look at their leaders living in luxary while rest of people live like animals, my dog even live a better life.
I may have been born in Muslim family but I have changed myself to basics, any religion preaching to kill other humans/religion,please leave me alone and do not count on my muslim name.
** Reason i know that I am right, example that my Islamic countries treated me and my wife(needless to tell religion) like out cast because of a rare genetic disease of my daughter,(though she is all right, and going to school in 6th grade),Guess what Mount Sinai welcomed us helped us and we stand tall .No one can convenice my daughter and me that Israelis and jews are some bad people just because of their religion or country.
Palestinians open your eyes and see who is real enemy, its your own leaders, like Arafat who married a Jew girl in her 20's when himself was in 60s.
What kind brain you all have?You think if you hurt someone its alright and is not allowed to defend themself? you must be stupid then..

First, every country steals land. The last time I checked no human being actually created the earth. Israel, later renamed Palestina by the occupying Roman imperialists has changed hands thousands of times and each time every occupier "steals" the land from the former occupants. The Torah, Bible,Koran and every archaelogical and historical (Josephus) evidence supports the fact that Hebrews, Jews, Israelites (whatever you want to call them)"owned" the land before the current theives (residents). Even if you use contemporary capitalist standards the "Jews" bought the land from the previous people who stole it from the previous theives. Under Israeli law, British mandate law, Turkish law, etc. no one really owned the land. It was really on long term lease, so all this "you stole the land" is hogwash or historically inaccurate. I find it humorous that socialist/communists who do not believe in property rights (read Marx) and would "steal" (sorry expropriate the land and give it to proletarian state) are the loudest voices concerning the "Zionists" stealing the land. Can we say "kettle calling the pot black." It is this kind of hypocrisy that goes nowhere is solving the problem. Take the United States for example. Every inch of land is "stolen." Then labor was stolen from african slaves. Even as recently as the 1920's and 30's land was stolen from Jews in Hebron by the British and Arab rioters.The Jordanian Army stole Jewish land when it invaded and occupied the "old city" and the West Bank (unless, of course you think the Synagogues were Mosques.) The only equitable solution is to pay everyone a living wage and reinburse them for real or immagined loses and stop killing each other. Facts are a bitch, I know. G-d bless.

First, every country steals land. The last time I checked no human being actually created the earth. Israel, later renamed Palestina by the occupying Roman imperialists has changed hands thousands of times and each time every occupier "steals" the land from the former occupants. The Torah, Bible,Koran and every archaelogical and historical (Josephus) evidence supports the fact that Hebrews, Jews, Israelites (whatever you want to call them)"owned" the land before the current theives (residents). Even if you use contemporary capitalist standards the "Jews" bought the land from the previous people who stole it from the previous theives. Under Israeli law, British mandate law, Turkish law, etc. no one really owned the land. It was really on long term lease, so all this "you stole the land" is hogwash or historically inaccurate. I find it humorous that socialist/communists who do not believe in property rights (read Marx) and would "steal" (sorry expropriate the land and give it to proletarian state) are the loudest voices concerning the "Zionists" stealing the land. Can we say "kettle calling the pot black." It is this kind of hypocrisy that goes nowhere is solving the problem. Take the United States for example. Every inch of land is "stolen." Then labor was stolen from african slaves. Even as recently as the 1920's and 30's land was stolen from Jews in Hebron by the British and Arab rioters.The Jordanian Army stole Jewish land when it invaded and occupied the "old city" and the West Bank (unless, of course you think the Synagogues were Mosques.) The only equitable solution is to pay everyone a living wage and reinburse them for real or immagined loses and stop killing each other. Facts are a bitch, I know. G-d bless.

First, every country steals land. The last time I checked no human being actually created the earth. Israel, later renamed Palestina by the occupying Roman imperialists has changed hands thousands of times and each time every occupier "steals" the land from the former occupants. The Torah, Bible,Koran and every archaelogical and historical (Josephus) evidence supports the fact that Hebrews, Jews, Israelites (whatever you want to call them)"owned" the land before the current theives (residents). Even if you use contemporary capitalist standards the "Jews" bought the land from the previous people who stole it from the previous theives. Under Israeli law, British mandate law, Turkish law, etc. no one really owned the land. It was really on long term lease, so all this "you stole the land" is hogwash or historically inaccurate. I find it humorous that socialist/communists who do not believe in property rights (read Marx) and would "steal" (sorry expropriate the land and give it to proletarian state) are the loudest voices concerning the "Zionists" stealing the land. Can we say "kettle calling the pot black." It is this kind of hypocrisy that goes nowhere is solving the problem. Take the United States for example. Every inch of land is "stolen." Then labor was stolen from african slaves. Even as recently as the 1920's and 30's land was stolen from Jews in Hebron by the British and Arab rioters.The Jordanian Army stole Jewish land when it invaded and occupied the "old city" and the West Bank (unless, of course you think the Synagogues were Mosques.) The only equitable solution is to pay everyone a living wage and reinburse them for real or immagined loses and stop killing each other. Facts are a bitch, I know. G-d bless.

There IS a Palestinian state already it is called JORDAN!!! There actually are two the second is called Lebanon.

Please keep in mind that non-eurpean Jews both indigionous Palestinian Jews and Jews of African decent (who came pre-Ottomon rule) were the MAJORITY in Palestine througout history up until the very end of Ottomon rule. In 1859 the recorded census of Palestine as verifed by several world sources including Karl Marx of the New York tribune, was 15,000 people total. The ethnic make up was 10,000 Jews and 5000 were Arab Muslims and Arab non Muslims, Druze, Bedoins and non-Arab Chrisitians.

After the wealthier European zionists began comming and turing the mostly swamp and dessert into habitable valuable land, Eastern European and Arab muslims began illegally immigrating (to look for work with the wealthy zionists) in mass numbers in both the end of the Ottomon rule and througout the British occupation. So those who feel sorry for the so called Palestinians are IDIOTS. Should we give the US to illegal Mexican immigrants when they are the majority in 30 years?

DO NOT forget that calling Israeli Muslims (most are NOT ARAB!!!) Palestinian is the result of the racist Pan-Arabism movement brought from Egypt's Nasser to Palestine by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalme (the Co-Author of Hitler's Final Solution). Calling them Palestinians is racist against Jews, Druze, Bedoins, and Non-Arab Christians who were indigionous to Palestine as well!

Were there not large jewish populations in most Middle East countries (Iraq, Egypt, Syria, etc...) prior to 1948? Didn't 99% of those populations move to Israel, Europe and the U.S. because of real and threatened violence from Arabs upset over the 1948 U.N. decision? Sounds like a quid pro quo on the re-settlement B.S..

That is a dumb question comparing mexicans to Palestinians. It can be said that yes the US should be given to mexicans for they were former rulers of the land, until kicked out like the palestinians.

An independent Palestine that can live peacefully with Israel and it's jewish citizens in the West Bank would not only have proper schools, medical and social services, but also jobs and a functioning economy: an international seaport on the Mediterranean; international airports in Gaza City and the West Bank; destinations for historical and beach loving tourists. I could go on and on, but in reality we are talking about folks that obviously have a different world view than I and who I could never hope to truly understand. Let's just bomb 'em.

read ilan pappe. get the facts from a historian to all you pretenders who claim to show intellectual reasoning just because you can type on this 'blog'. if your sources are 'karl marx' of the 'new york tribune' then you do not know what the purpose behind a university is. israeli muslims? calling a palestinian is racist? no wonder gilad atzmon writes what he writes. better learn how to read a book and follow the 10 commandments.

Just as a follow up to everything that has been said about the palestinian issue.
If everyone would look deeper into the bible/coran
would realize that jews and muslims had a common father, Abraham/Ibrahim wich means merciful father. The rift started when his two sons Itzhak(Izak) and Ishmael (Ismail) did not see eye to eye. They should realize that the jews and muslims are half brothers and try to work out their problems between themselves instead of trying each to bring in other intermediaries to do so because as long they do not do it in a meaningful, without any preconditioned way it will never be a true peace or two state solution that will last. Please just compare the Nobel Price winners on both sides in proportion to the population each occupy on earth. If the arabs/muslims would educate their children instead of teaching them hatred, and palestinian parents selling their yougsters to jihad to be stupid martyrs, and for some virgins in the afterlife, ( me I prefer them in this life), evrything could be different. You can't expect the Israelis to commit suicide just please some radicals who have no repect for their own lives.
Theway I look at it if muslims or arabs would put dwn their weapons would be peace on earth if israelis would put down their weapons would be no more Israel.

Just as a follow up to everything that has been said about the palestinian issue.
If everyone would look deeper into the bible/coran
would realize that jews and muslims had a common father, Abraham/Ibrahim wich means merciful father. The rift started when his two sons Itzhak(Izak) and Ishmael (Ismail) did not see eye to eye. They should realize that the jews and muslims are half brothers and try to work out their problems between themselves instead of trying each to bring in other intermediaries to do so because as long they do not do it in a meaningful, without any preconditioned way it will never be a true peace or two state solution that will last. Please just compare the Nobel Price winners on both sides in proportion to the population each occupy on earth. If the arabs/muslims would educate their children instead of teaching them hatred, and palestinian parents selling their yougsters to jihad to be stupid martyrs, and for some virgins in the afterlife, ( me I prefer them in this life), evrything could be different. You can't expect the Israelis to commit suicide just please some radicals who have no repect for their own lives.
Theway I look at it if muslims or arabs would put dwn their weapons would be peace on earth if israelis would put down their weapons would be no more Israel.

I hate the plaintext format of this forum. Hard to distinguish between one post and the next.

However in response to Vongreim,

You need a healthy dose of factual history my friend. Not a microsecond in ALLLLL of history was "Palestine" ever an independent Arab country. The owner of the land in May of 1948 was in fact, the British Empire. It was the Ottoman Empire before that, and so on and so on....Soooo...In 1948, when the British Empire was sick of ruling Palestine, it was INDEED the UN's to give away as it sought fit among the inhabitants which included substantial populations of both Jews and Arab Muslims. It should have gone along the lines of the 1947 UN partition plan, roughly equal amounts of land to the Jews and Muslims respective to where they were concentrated. Again this wasn't enough for the surrounding Arab countries who thought they could simply just conquer the fledgling new state of Israel and annex the territory meant for the Palestinians for a state. Within 2 years of fighting, Israel proved strong enough not only to withstand the attack but make gains in territory. This is the 1949-1950 armistice line that all countries recognize, including myself. The armistice line declared in 1967 is not internationally recognized and probably will become an independent Palestinian state in the future.

The main reasons this all didn't happen in 1948 was the lack of an effective movement within the Palestinian community to establish a state, and the greediness of Arab countries to annex their lands.

I'll square with you on one thing. It really was shitty for millions of Palestinian people to have to move. But it wasn't theirs after all. The Jew's were not simply random "immigrants." It was their land to begin with and their right to go back and claim it.

Israel, although being attacked first in SOME of their wars, cannot simply annex land from others and expect the world at large to accept it.

Israel gave back the Sinai (and its oil fields) to a dictatorship which is likely to be replaced by an Islamic Movement that derives a large part of its overwhelming popular support from its determination to end the peace. It gave Gaza (the Israeli left is now forced to admit) over to the control of the Palestinian branch of the above-mentioned Islamic Movement. It would be insane for it to give back the strategically vital Golan Heights to Iran's closest ally. When it captured land from Jordan in 1967 it liberated land that had been quite recently ethnically cleansed of Jews. Nevertheless, it has offered to give back the parts of the West Bank where an Arab majority actually prevails, throw in some other land, and force Jews out of their houses to do it. I can't imagine what other commitment to not expanding borders a reasonable person could possibly ask for.

"And while it is true that Israel was treated roughly thereafter, they certainly did not make things easier by maintaining their borders. They expanded them"
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Actually those lands were part of the original Palestine mandate set aside for a Jewish state. Britain then betrayed the Jews by giving nearly 80% of that original Palestine mandate and created Transjordan. Judea and Samaria and Gaza were illegally occupied by Jordan and Egypt respectively from 1948-1967. Then in 1967 Israel fighting a war of self-defense from Arab aggression, acquired Judea and Samaria and Gaza. This is what you refer to as "expanding" its borders. The Arabs made war on Israel and that's how Israel got the territories which were originally supposed to be part of the Jewish state anyway.

Geographical bounderies keep on changing, there is no set rule,how Saudi Arabia was given to Saud's family ask French who were ruling that place.Jordan, well remember in 70's when army dismental Palestanian camps, and pushed them out? Because...no one like crime ridden settlements by their doors.
When I bought my house, and paid off,the previous owner's generations cannot claim their grands ex-property from my next generation,and I can put my name plate on my property,thats what is money talks.In sense of past, Jews were before Christians, and christians were before Muslims, so who ever want claim on ancestory thats their answer.Look around the whole disturbance even in Islam is because of Saudi(Wahabi) Islam, and Iranian(sheite) Islam, and people in middle are confused.Stop the flow of money to Jihadist from Arab Kings,who are just playing plain politics to through the trash out and paying to maintain dump site(jihadist cells)all signals to Saudis, then why we just do not tell them to go F** off you feeding problem against us,we have right to stop it,we want our generations to live happily as we were living in good time or recession or depression atleast we were happy, and here come bunch of idiots trying to win 70 virgins...what a crap..If their heavens is such a place where every man has 70, then what will the women have 70 men? or in their heads women cannot go to Heavens? or womens will be given their husbands? well if she had few husbands in life then there will be fight over her...and killing goes on..by the way is this a heavens or some Bro**** where are the things not to be done on earth will be allowed...I just had it..there are more questions than answers in my head..If I remember In Koran chapter "Nisa" is about women and have clear warnings for men before addressing women..why?
give me a shot of Chevas....lol

Would it not have been more just to have given the jews part of Germany after WWII? After all, they are the ones who transgressed against the jews, not the palestinians. And why does Israel have the most UN violations but zero sanctions? And why are they seen as a democracy when they are really an apartheid state? And how could palestine have been there land if they all came from europe???

Well if Ottoman Empire, fatimids, and all have not made their life difficult they would not have gone to Europe anyway.Is not Arab thinking of "Arab Muslims is same as Hitler's thinking of himself as superior breed?
When there was no muslim christians and Jews were already there,as far as democracy.. still in Israel Top leaders can be charged with crime, how about same crimes committed by Arab kings is wraped in religion.

If we really want to talk history. Abraham, the so-called father of the jews, immigrated to Canaan from the Mesopotamian city of Ur (located near Basra in southern Iraq today). The jewish religion began under Abraham and his son Isaac and grandsons and so on. When Abraham arrived in Canaan from Ur, he was met by tousands upon thousands of Canaanites and Philistines who have lived in that area between the river and the sea for centuries before Abraham was even born. The Palestinians of today are direct descendents of the Canaanites and Philistines of that era. I know because I am one of them.

So, to say that this land between the river and the sea "belongs to the jews" has no factual or historical foundation because we all know what really happened. The jews are foreigners to this land and they will always be treated as such. Their true home is in Iraq.

Oh, and by the way, God was never a real estate agent.

I for one am glad that Palestinians who aren't war mongering blood thirsty religious fanatics are choosing alcohol over Hamas. The less influence religous fundamentalism plays, the more likely there will be peace in the region. Hamas needs to be completely wiped off the face of the planet.

Answer to paul.
Hey idiot, you want to know how Palestine is "their" land? How about educating yourself you dummy? Go to any sourse you trust or accept: Bible, Quoran or History Textbook. You will find an answer to all your questions. And by the way, speaking of the "UN sanctions". What a bunch of antisemites! Who needs them anyway?

Any american that believes palistinians should move to make way for Jews because the jews had the land "first" is a hypocrite unless he agrees to give his land back to native americans and or move into a "Camp" that the native americans set aside. If not...you are a hypocrite and would be better off keeping your opinion to yourself. Get the picture? Probably not.

It is wrong to remove people from thier lands period even if you really feel it should be yours because it was your ancestors long ago. The hystory (yeah I spelled it that way on purpose) Dosent matter. Having and maintaining the ability to treat those who are different than you with the same respect you would expect for yourself does matter and is a principal that does not exist in a government that favors Jews and occupies christians and muslims alike. This is bigotry and not the actions of a victim like Israel is always claiming to be.

Yes...Israel is stealing land. And if it was yours they wanted your tune would change. I wish the US (my country) would stop supporting and sending aid to Isreal. Maybe then the extremists in the muslim faith that we call terrorists here would not be so quick to want to kill americans. After all you don't see Osama Bin Laden on TV calling for the death of Canada or Mexico!

Nobody is special and we should all learn to accept that...even if you really don't want to.

After all, they are the ones who transgressed against the jews, not the palestinians.

Haj Amin Al-Husseini, the most prominent Palestinian leader, collaborated with the Nazis and worked successfully to turn the populations of Arab countries against their Jews.

And why does Israel have the most UN violations but zero sanctions?

The Muslim bloc is allied with what is left of the old Communist bloc, for one thing.

And why are they seen as a democracy . . . ?

Elected leaders, free press, stuff like that.

And how could palestine have been there land if they all came from europe???

Jews were the majority population of Jerusalem before there were any Zionist Olim. The first printing press in Palestine was established by Jews to print Hebrew books. The typical Israeli has ancestors from Middle Eastern countries (I didn't say all of his ancestors.) The fact that Israel is the traditional Jewish homeland and that it was a major center of Jewish culture all though history counts for something. Other than that, the Jewish population in Palestine grew by legitimate means and a bunch of other history took place until the partition plan was proposed. Go educate yourself.

Well Mr. JA SAAH,

Palestinian Arabs are NOT ancient Canaanites, they are Arab squatters from the 6th century or descendants from Christian and Jewish inhabitants from Roman and Byzantine times. This is evidenced by the prevalence of the J1Y haplotype in both populations.

So you mean whoever is stronger had pushed the weaker population out,or killed them majority of time,then occupied the remains and forced (the one who did not run away or got slaughtered )to accept their way is a tradition, may it be a religion, believes way of living etc etc.
Is this justified? if it is then hey stronger in this time of history is there just follow the course of your elders live with it and wait for your turn...Is this all boiling down to this point right..
Pitty, you all going back in 6th century think that we(human race) should not have progressed in all parts of life and get more civilized?Why you take something from others which cannot be reversed I mean life, and jihadist Palentinians (Hamas or what ever) pay for it...to kill and get killed?Why not your self(leaders) send their kids as sucide bombers,Laden has bunch of boys, so do others preaching to kill...or your kid is different, because he is from your sperm? well this makes them Racist too...

The problem is no one won yet.

Who cares what happened in 19 dicky 2. I have the solution right now.

Do you see Indians attacking your home? No we killed off enough of them and keep our boot on the rest, because we won.

Are there neanderthals chucking spears at French men? No, we killed that whole species off.

Some one needs to win over there. It is the world, just because we think we are better doesn't mean we are. Usually the carrier of lasting peace is a war of annihilation.

It is quite evident that those who criticize Israel for the middle east's problems have SHIT FOR BRAINS. One should always remember that it was the ottoman turks who invited, begged and paid Jewish settlers to the area which is now Israel because it was devoid of population, un-developed and a drain on their resources due to the laziness of the arabs in the region.

The ONLY way Peace can be achieved is through Victory and security is achieved when there is an absence of ANY threats. Quit funding the islamo facist groups of the palestinian diaper heads and quit funding the terrorist groups that are in the region and around the world. ( ie. hamas, hezbollah, plo, islamo martyrs brigade and thousands of others ).

All I see here is a bunch a anti-Arab, anti-Palestinian and anti-Persian Yids who will shortly scream I'm an anti-Semite because I spoke the truth about the Yids. GET A LIFE, JEW BOYZ!Your so fricking RACIST and yet all you can do is call other people anti-Semites like its somehow OK to be anti-Arab, but never call a jew an anti-Arab because it's some type of hate crime to tell a Yid the truth about them and/or Israel, which happens to be an apartheid state.. GET REAL!.

If Jewish anscestors as having previously been inhabitants of Jerusalem equates to a right of ownership and return in the 20th century, then under the same logic why not give Sevilla, Cordoba, Grenada, etc back to the descendants of the Moores; why not give Alexandria and Istanbul (Constantinople)back to the Greeks? It just doesn't hold up. What I see that truly disapoints me is that the Israeli authorities have time and again demonstrated that they are not serious partners for peace. Respect the accords negotiated, stop making families homeless, stop starving populations and freezing the livlihoods of civilians, stop spinning the true nature of the issues in the media (we all know that this is such an effective tool in perception management), and we may start getting somewhere. The bottom line though is that the UN should have taken measures to build a pluralistic and inclusive society in the Holy Land instead of creating this mess. Start looking inwards and realize that ethnocentrism is not a guiding principle for successful state building. One day the jig will be up and people everywhere will start understanding which party has good faith and which doesn't, for now the Palestinians have no better option than to resist occupation with all that they have left. Put it into perspective, what would you do? BTW the numbers say it all, why are Israelis so keen on killing civilians? I know, I know, yeah, the rocket fire. If Israel engages in true diplomacy there will be peace, but why negotiate if the use of force will easily create absolute gains at the expense of the other party. I'll close by saying that history has demonstrated that the concentration of power always shifts around the globe. Its in Israel's interest to think about its longterm security and viability. New options must be explored now.

Stranger...honestly, if your can't formulate an argument and must resort to calling someone an "idiot" or "dummy" instead, you obviously need help! Having read through the comments above, it appears that if you're Jewish, you can whine and jump up and down like a spoiled toddler, complaining that everyone hates you and that they must stop. For God's sake, you're so hypocritical, illogical and UNFAIR and this is the cause for your lack of popularity both in the Middle East and elsewhere. And stranger, if it wasn't for the "antisemitic" UN, you wouldn't have a state and would still be rotting somewhere in Eastern Europe...think about that before you start lecturing again.

Matt and Steve, What the F*#K is wrong with you morons; are you suggesting Genocide? That's really smart you damn twits. Read carefully; We are better than we were when Neandrathals were still on Earth, I think we've come a long way. What seperates us from animals is the ability to engage in rational thought. That means rational solutions to complex problems. Steve, Arabs aren't lazy, and Turks didn't beg for Jewish investors, they paid for land in high valued currencies and were therefore ideal business partners. Last thing, stop talking tough and gruff, war would make you vomit and cry so stop glorifying it as though its some sort of process of natural selection. Genocide won't be corrected with more genocide dumb ass. Go calm your insecurities with a good burger boys, it'll do you some good.

Something really ought to be done about this anti-Semitic filth bombarding Soccerdad every so often. Perhaps registration in order to post.

The reality is that Israel is the only state in the Middle East which is NOT an apartheid state. All of the others being almost exclusively arab and or muslim. joe why do you pretend to be Jewish when its obvious you are a racist hatemongering arab-muslim scum? Who do you think you're fooling? You don't like hearing the truth about your racist, barbaric ragheaded brethren.

"For God's sake, you're so hypocritical, illogical and UNFAIR and this is the cause for your lack of popularity both in the Middle East and elsewhere".
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Successful people are always the brunt of jealously and hatred.
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And stranger, if it wasn't for the "antisemitic" UN, you wouldn't have a state and would still be rotting somewhere in Eastern Europe...think about that before you start lecturing again.
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Israel exists and continues to do so because JEWS FOUGHT FOR IT, defeating the arabs in multiple wars of attempted annihilation. The UN and the rest of the world stood by as multiple arab armies attacked the newly established Jewish state in 1948. In fact there was a worldwide arms embargo preventing Israel from being armed while the arab armies were aided by the treacherous British and others. But nevertheless, the Jews ragtag army defeated all of those well-armed arab states. So Israel exists not because of the UN but because the Jewish people shed blood and died for it, losing one percent of Israel's Jewish population in that war. I'm sure the UN would not have minded a different outcome.

The arab world remains among the most backward cultures economically, socially and politically while tiny Israel with no oil to bring it wealth and surrounded by hostile enemy states, has been able to create an advanced economy and be among the world leaders in hi-tech, science and medicine as well as of course being a free, democratic nation.

Perhaps the arabs wouldn't be such whiney, pathetic losers if they actually tried to lift themselves up instead of expending all of their energy in hating and trying to destroy Israel.

You should not be so quick to dismiss joe the jew, calling him a troll and making comments about his "barbaric ragheaded breathren." Gee, I wonder what would make the Arabs feel like Israelis are racists. Certainly not the comments about ragheads. There is no way around a two-state solution if Israel wants to avoid being isolated from the rest of the world. You just elected politicians who don't seem to get that and I think joe is just trying to help. I live in America and I honestly feel that 9-11 would never have happened if we didn't provide unconditional support for Israel, so Laura can stop the Israelis died for it thing because they aren't alone. If it were my call, the U.N. would take Isreal back and make all the major religious sites an international city-state, like Vatican City but supported, policed, and defended by all countries who have large Christian, Jewish, or Muslim populations to ensure free and equal access for all and eliminate the Palestinian issue sice Israel has had at least a quarter-century to do so and is actually moving backwards. Be thankful I am not in charge. People have been fighting over the Holy Land for thousands of years and I don't think it should belong to any one religious group any more than sites in India should belong to Hindus or Buddhists when both claim the same sites.

Looks like someone hijacked my name. Who woulda thought there was more than one "Matt" in the world?

Hmmm...Reasonable people never come out in a free-for-all like this. Soccerdad needs to clean this up, BAdly. Every other post is utter crap.

There can't be a two-state solution because the arabs oppose the existence of a Jewish state. Any land concessions by Israel would simply be used to wage further war on Israel.

Boy are you clueless about islamic ideology and history if you really believe 9/11 would not have happened were it not for Israel. Muslims having been waging jihad against infidels since the origin of islam. Muslims have been attacking America since the days of the barbary pirates. Is it because of Israel that muslims wage jihad against India, the Phillipines, Thailand throughout Africa etc.?

Under Israeli control Christians, Jews and muslims already have free and equal access to their holy sites. When eastern Jerusalem was under Jordanian occupation, Jews were barred from their holy sites. Israel is not the problem, the muslims are. Get a clue.

Constructive critic; I like your approach to the issue; here's someone who is starting to see through all the social indoctrination we're exposed to in the West. I'm telling you all, this present state of affairs just can't last, the International community is getting fed up of a lack of resolution and Israel as the advantaged party will eventually be held accountable for perpetuating the misery of the Palestinians. I should also let you know that I'm a raghead and I agree that Arabs are politically weak to a never before seen extent, its shameful. Socially and economically though, you're making huge underestimations, many states in the Gulf have adopted another approach; using oil as a means to an end; in other words they are taking long term sustainability measures through diversification. Algeria is no longer in a position to be blackmailed by foreign aid since the state debt has been paid. Syria is also making strides in their economic development especially in the manufacturing sector. One thing you all must remember is that the Arab Governments need to become accountable to the Arab people as opposed to being accountable to international business and political interests, this ensures the support and survival of these regimes for the time being. When the Arab peoples break free from the shackles of this unqualified leadership, things will be very different. It isn't wise not to acknowledge the fact that there is a lot of potential in this region. I hope for Israelis that this issue will be resolved and in the distant past before this potential evolves into capability; we just don't need more death. BTW, some people on here need to try and see if their stereotypical views of Arabs and Muslims are founded. I'd say that it isn't Islam that leads to some of the foolish behaviour of Muslims, but desperation; the kind of desperation that results from occupation and apartheid policies. I believe that pro Zionists are starting to find it more and more difficult to argue their perspective, that's why I constantly see references to racial inferiority, barbarity, backwardness, etc. Get to know some Arabs living amongst us in the West and you'll see, they're human beings too, I promise. And I'll make you another ragheaded promise, you'll also come to realize that those sporting beards or hijabs are the ones who will be of the highest quality of character due to their adherence to ethical standards rooted in the principles of Islamic conduct. I'll brace myself for racist rebuttals to this post (I still hope you can prove me wrong though and argue with logic and truth).

The so-called "palestinians" perpetuate their own misery, along with their terrorist rulers and the rest of the arab-muslim world who have used them as political pawns to wage war on Israel.

Why are they 'so called' Palestinians? You don't need your own state to be designated an ethnic group you know. You seem to not have understood my point Laura; Arab rulers are not in any sense implementing any sort of policy that has anything to do with what the people want, so please clarify what you mean by the Arab/muslim world. Remember that these dirt bag regimes in the Arab world themselves are the pawns of the Western world. this is what I'd call indirect control. Arab states are strong internally but completely useless when it comes to international clout and influence. Another thing; If the West wants to democratize the world, which I personally think isn't a bad thing, why punish a population for their choices. Fatah represents and stands for exactly the same thing as these other tyrannical and ineffective Arab regimes; personal gain as opposed to the advancement of the interests of the people. We all know about Fatah's abhorrent corruption and with the poverty of the Palestinians being a quantifyable fact, it is just unacceptable; So why act surprised as to the outcome of the vote, although everyone tries to tarnish the image of Hamas, they are not corrupt money loving people, you should see Ismail Haniyeh's house/shack. They were building schools and hospitals and won votes as a result. Their political platform was not based on empty promises, but rather their actions, which won the hearts and minds of the electorate. What we have now is a population who chose the better of two evils, and this happenned because the West made the mistake of supporting and bolstering a pawn party (Fatah), while also insisting on democracy (thinking it wouldn't be accepted because ragheads are too underevolved intellectually for that). This formula of indirect control only works when there is no democracy (ie Saudi Arabia). The people chose, and the hypocritical approach of the world's power brokers was to dive back into the rhetoric of "we don't deal with terrorists"; But don't you deal with democratically elected governments? Hamas does some things that I don't really agree with, but try and understand the thought process of these voters, and please don't respond that Hamas violently took over Gaza or all that crap, that's the media's account, the truth is that Fatah had no legitimacy whatsoever in taking part in a powersharing Government; their function should have been that of the opposition at best because that's the role that the people designated for them. Hamas was trying to appease Western concerns by entering into these failed negotiations in the first place. It seems to me that people are simply being denied quality information here in the West, hence the misinformed comments. Our media is flawed because of these conglomerates and needs to be deconsolidated. Our media was intended as a watchdog for the Government's actions, not as a perception management tool for the indoctrination of a population. Think critically, diversify your sources of information and you'll get somewhere with your understanding of this conflict. I sincerely wish you well Laura and hope that you at least try and see this through another lense, at the very least I think you know that its only fair to hear and understand both perspectives.

"Why are they 'so called' Palestinians? You don't need your own state to be designated an ethnic group you know"
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That's the whole point, the "Palestinians" are not in fact a distinct ethnic group, the people referred to as Palestinians are Arabs. There are several Arab states to which they can and should be absorbed into. The Kurds on the other hand are a distinct ethnic group, when are they getting statehood?
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"at the very least I think you know that its only fair to hear and understand both perspectives."
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As if you bother to understand the Jewish/Israeli perspective.

"The people chose, and the hypocritical approach of the world's power brokers was to dive back into the rhetoric of "we don't deal with terrorists"; But don't you deal with democratically elected governments? Hamas does some things that I don't really agree with, but try and understand the thought process of these voters,"
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Having been elected does not legitimize hamas and doesn't mean we should talk to them. The nazis were also elected to power. All it shows is that the Arabs of Gaza, by electing to be represented by a terrorist gang, prove that they are not interested in peacefully coexisting with Israel and don't deserve statehood.

Another fellow named "Tariq" wrote:

"Hamas rose to power via elections that were only made possible in the first place by the Oslo Accords. These same international accords were soon rejected by Hamas, as it decided to change the rules of the democratic game and govern Gaza through weapons and fatwas [religious rulings]. All the facts show that Hamas has lost, not due to a coup of any sort, but have in fact lost by winning the elections!"

http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&id=9679

hamas is still popular with the palestinians and would win a election tomorrow.where as fatah are the leaders of no one who are only in a their cosy position in the west bank because of israeli potection and US support.
it was israel and the west who changed the democratic game by not recognising their right to represent the palestinians afer a fair democratic election. instead they propped up the corrupt leaders of fatah who negoiated the contining illegal occupation of their land under a new name -palestine.

Let them vote for hamas, but they must accept the consequences of their choice. So long as they choose terrorism and war, Israel should give nothing away.

And cut the crap about occupation. Israel doesn't occupy anyone else's land. Just who is being occupied? There never existed a sovereign arab state in those territories. There was never a palestinian nation state.

sorry, i keep on forgetting that when UN endorsed the partition plan there was two states involved- palestine and israel.and wasn't it the partition of 'palestine'[not israel].
you guys have no interest for justice and international law and and the only decency you believe in is only for the jews.
your whole argument is based on lies, propoganda and only a portion of the facts and you are racist to the core. you are like a drowning man who will cling to anything to stay afloat,even his CAMERA.

"sorry, i keep on forgetting that when UN endorsed the partition plan there was two states involved- palestine and israel.and wasn't it the partition of 'palestine'[not israel]".
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sass, it was the ARABS who rejected the partition. They rejected it because they opposed the existence of a Jewish state even though it meant there would also have been an Arab state. Anyway an Arab state had already been carved out of palestine, Jordan. Nearly 80% of the original Palestine mandate which was supposed to have been meant for a Jewish homeland had already been given to the arabs.

the arabs had every right to reject the UN.
the UN is a organisation of states which was formed for certain purposes defined in the Charter. at no time did this organisation possess any sovereighty or any other right over palestine. accordingly, the UN possessed no power to decide the partition of palestine, or assign and part or territory to a religious minority of alien immigrants in order that they might establish a state of their own. neither individually, nor collectively, could the members of the UN alienate, reduce or impair the sovereighnty of the palestinian people, or dispose of their territory or destroy by partition the territorial integrity of their country.
the partion plan would not have been approved if a number of smaller nations who were members of the UN had been allowed to vote freely. it was approved only because the US, with the tacit approval of the USSR, intimidated a number of small states whose votes were needed for the necessary majority.the US was influenced by the jewish lobby and their supporters. on this subject the US secetary of defence, james forrestal, was later to write 'i thought it was the most disastrous and regrettable fact that the foreign policy of this country was determined by the contributions of a particular bloc of special interests might make to party funds.'.

The arabs have absolutely no legal or historical right to Israel. It belongs solely to the Jewish people. There are enough arab states and not another arab-islamic terror state should be created. Remove the arab occupiers from the land of Israel and send them to the arab countries, which is where they belong. There is no such thing as "palestinian" territory. There has never been a sovereign nation-state called palestine and there are no such people as "palestinians".

As far as you sass, you are a degenerate low-life who doesn't belong here. The only thing more comtemptible then muslims themselves are those western leftist apologist for muslim terrorists such as your pitiful pathetic self.

the arabs had every right to reject the UN

They expressed that rejection, essentially, by putting the Jews in the position of fight-or-die. They don't have the right to complain about having to live with the consequences of bad decisions.

the first israelite occupation of palestine was only an episode in the history of an arab country which has been occupied at one time or another by most of the major powers of world history.where as the palestinian people are the continuous occupants of palestine[israel] from time immorial.
in 1919 an overwhelming majority of the 24000 jewish palestinians ,in fact, were strongly opposed to the creation of a jewish state on arab land, which consisted of over 500 000 palestinian muslims and christians. these 24000 jews owned less than 2% of the land. it was the alien jewish immigrants from europe who wanted all the land for the jews.

how was 21000 poorly equipped arab armies going to defeat the 60000 strong jewish army. the corrupt arab regimes only sent these armies because the jews were ethnic cleansing the muslim/christian out of their homeland.
the UN charter states that you can not annex lands conquered in war, or transport any of your population to conquered land. so its illegal under international law.but you guys totally disreguard international law and have no sense of justice .
who are the palestinians and from were do they come from???????
the jews originated from somewhere in modern day iraq, so does that means they own iraq too.???

How often I read about the myth of "stolen" Arab
land by Israel. What is Arab land and why is it Arab ?
The arabs also did steal it when they conquered the Byzantine Palestine and other territories. The Arab Legion of Jordan expelled the Jews from the old city of Jerusalem 1948 where they were the majority .
Arabswent by thousands from everywhere to Jerusalem and did occupy the houses left by the Jews and did build new ones.
THE OCCUPIERS OF EAST JERUSALEM ARE NOT THE JEWS BUT THE ARABS.

How often I read about the myth of "stolen" Arab
land by Israel. What is Arab land and why is it Arab ?
The arabs also did steal it when they conquered the Byzantine Palestine and other territories. The Arab Legion of Jordan expelled the Jews from the old city of Jerusalem 1948 where they were the majority .
Arabswent by thousands from everywhere to Jerusalem and did occupy the houses left by the Jews and did build new ones.
THE OCCUPIERS OF EAST JERUSALEM ARE NOT THE JEWS BUT THE ARABS.