Soccer Dad

you make the statement

"In recent months the Times itself has reported that there's been an improvement in the lives of the Palestinians living under Fatah rule. Surely they can compare their own lives to the lives of the resident of Gaza who haven't seen any material progress since Hamas won the elections three years ago."

while trying to make a point relating to whether Hamas has gained credibility in the current debacle inflicted upon Gaza

While i find it repugnant that you seem to see everything in terms of material progress when the issue at hand is more central to the true identity of a evolved being ie Human Rights, I wish to address your statement as it stands

Whatever lables you may place apon the Palestinians, they are not stupid ! Do you not think that they can join the dots relating to this difference in material situations and the monstering that has been inflicted on the people of Gaza by the Israeli people - or at least by their government in their name ? Do you not think that they see that difference in material progress, rather than being directly due to Hamas is actually due to this . . .
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Conal Urquhart in Jerusalem
Friday 6 July 2007

"Israel's latest blockade of Gaza is threatening to destroy the territory's commercial sector and drive more people into the hands of extremists, according to a report published yesterday.
In the last three weeks, 75% of Gaza's factories have closed because they are not allowed to import raw material or export finished products, forcing thousands of families to rely on food aid to survive.

The report by Gisha, an Israeli human rights organisation, concludes that the increase in poverty and dependency will lead to a further radicalisation of Gaza's population which will cause further violence . . .

Israel has reduced the flow of goods into Gaza to a bare minimum and stopped goods from leaving since Hamas wrested control of Gaza from Fatah and the Palestinian Authority last month . .

Sari Bashi, director of Gisha, said the impoverishment of Gaza was strengthening extremists at the expense of moderates. "Israel is attempting to achieve political objectives by exerting pressure on 1.4 million women, men and children, whose suffering is supposed to bring about the change it wants - toppling Hamas control in Gaza," she said.

"In reality, a policy of collective punishment is being imposed upon 1.4 million people, in violation of international humanitarian law and contradictory to Israel's interest. Destroying Gaza's economy only exacerbates dependence on extreme elements."

Israel is determined to avoid accusations of causing a humanitarian crisis in Gaza so is allowing basic food products ,which are distributed by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (Unrwa).

An Israeli military official involved in Gaza policy described Israel's policy as "no development, no progress, no humanitarian crisis".

In a further blow to the Gazan economy Unrwa and the UN Development Programme will announce today the suspension of all construction projects because Israel will not allow the import of cement. The projects are worth about $80m (�40m) and employ hundreds of people. The works include the construction of homes, health centres and sewage works.
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and while this plus the current events will radicalize Gaza as never before, do you really think that those in the West Bank, (while they spend their time at checkpoints, and enjoy the vistas provided by the Wall) will take it on themselves to "behave" as Israel demands while the principles of Human Rights continue to be flauted by the local bully.

Do you really think that material progress will still the spirit of the human heart - even if (or maybe in spite of the fact) that they themselves could be threatened with similar monstering ?

Of course a suppressed people are going to resist their suppression, and the human spirit requres more in life than mere material progress (even tho that itself is one element of Human Rights)

You will notice that the article quoted did not mention the hardship caused by insufficient medical supplies during the blockade, nor the dislocation of lives caused by Israels whimsical closing of the borders to those trying to leave Gaza to continue their studies/careers or to those wishing to return to their families.

How strange that people would not submit to the will of those monstering them, but instead turned to a more radical path.

But really, the main point is this. For you to have made the statement above without reference to the inflicted blockade's role in the situation, shows at best a lack of intellectual dilligence, and at worst an actual belief that Hamas is to blame for the blockade.

But then - your pseudo-logic (as i have come to term the thinking that i have been seeing coming en masse from Israel and its ilk) - does seem to be blaming Hamas for rather a lot lately.

I suppose those without a moral compass - but very versed in legalese - have to blame someone for the fact that they have become a monster.

I suppose those without a moral compass - but very versed in legalese - have to blame someone for the fact that they have become a monster.

More babbling. Right, every bad thing that happens is Israel's fault. The Palestinians take no responsibility. They have no blame, no culpability for their actions because the only thing they can do is blow themselves up. And that is ok because Israel is a monster.
at worst an actual belief that Hamas is to blame for the blockade
I won't waste a lot of words on this, but there are some fundamental problems with moral relativism and a refusal to take responsibility for one's actions.

If you can't understand the relationship between the two there is a serious disconnect with reality.

Yes Yes, "babbling", am I ? Thank you very much.

Rather than moral relativism, i think i was applying moral absolutism to the situation...seeing that the morality of Human Rights could rightly be seen as universal principles (natural law, conscience . . .)

Whist it may not be felt that Hamas can be trusted to adhere to the tennants of Human Rights, what I was saying (excuse me, babbling about) is that the people who have been radicalized into voting for Hamas, may well have responded more conscienably to Israel ceasing its harrassment and "micro-terrorism" of the Palestinian people - that being the Check-points, Roadblocks, Security Fences ?Settlements, Blockades, Collective Punishment and dislocation of their lives etc

And that - in light of this "micro-terrorism" plus the recent pulverizing of Gaza - Israel can truly be said to have become a monster.

Surely the accusation of "moral relativism and a refusal to take responsibility for one's actions" could be levelled at Israel as justly as it could be applied to anyone else ?