July 16, 2008

Lawrence of Cyberia gets a D+ in Ahmadinecology

Lawrence of Cyberia asserted recently that Ahmadinejad's ravings about the Holocaust actually contain a valid point that was also made by Arnold Toynbee. He explains:

When Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said of the Holocaust: "If you (Europeans) committed this big crime, then why should the oppressed Palestinian nation pay the price?", most of us in the U.S. didn't hear anything beyond the initial "if". We heard that "if", and immediately launched into a cacophony of "If? What does he mean 'If'? Is he saying it never happened? He's a Holocaust denier!".

But of course Ahmadinejad didn't just say, "If it happened...". He said "If......, then why.....?". If Europeans did it, why are Palestinians paying? If Europeans were responsible for the Holocaust of the Jews, and the Holocaust is justification for a Jewish state, then why isn't that state in Europe? And that's a different issue altogether than simply denying the Holocaust took place.

He goes on to quote Toynbee:
If the creation of a new state of Israel was judged to be a legitimate form of compensation to the surviving Jews, the territory for this state should have been taken from the Europeans, not from the Arabs.
Same point, right? Not if you actually follow Ahmadinejad's train of thought. The historical truth of the Holocaust and the justification for the founding of Israel are indeed two different subjects. So there is an apparent odd lurch in focus involved in coupling whether the Holocaust happened and whether it justifies the founding of Israel. Unless, like Ahmadinejad, you think that the claim that the Holocaust occurred is a lie that was created expressly for the purpose of cheating the Palestinians and that otherwise nobody would ever entertain such a notion.

Holocaust denial, after all, is a giant conspiracy theory, and every conspiracy theory includes a notion of what the conspirators are trying to accomplish. Here is an account of Ahmadinejad's views from Iran's PressTV:

Ahmadinejad said the Holocaust was a pretext to occupy Palestine and displace millions of peoples, therefore its aspects should be studied. "They displaced the Palestinian nation under the pretext of the massacre of the Jews; if it is revealed that the Holocaust has nothing to do with the issue of Palestine and the figures in this regard are exaggerated, they will have nothing to say."
So in Ahmadinejad's mind he is delivering the ultimate gotcha point--that World Arrogance lie, he is proclaiming triumphantly, doesn't even serve the justification it was created for. As an abstract point, Toynbee is saying something that has a certain validity: one person should not pay for another person's sins. Ahmadinejad's point, however, is all part of the Holocaust-denying fun.

Crossposted on Judeopundit

Posted by Judeopundit at July 16, 2008 8:58 PM | TrackBack
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Comments

It's worth noting in this context that Toynbee was a notorious anti-Semite.

Posted by: Robert at July 17, 2008 12:33 PM

Actually the Arab muslim world was allied with the nazis and therefore complicit in the holocaust. The grand mufti of Jerusalem, haj amin al husseini, visited hitler and encouraged him to expand his final solution to the Jews of Palestine. And of course there were muslim SS divisions in the Balkins. So the idea that the Arabs are paying for someone else's sin is false. They were active participants through their alliance with hitler.

Posted by: Laura at July 17, 2008 12:51 PM

So the idea that the Arabs are paying for someone else's sin is false. They were active participants through their alliance with hitler.

The Mufti and other Palestinians also have some culpability for the mistreatment of Jews in places like Iraq. But what is the significance of such a fact? A useful parry that preserves the argument that the Holocaust justifies Israel? Or just history that people should know? Does Israel need a justification at all? As a historical point, is it the Holocaust that got the Palestinians where they are today?

Posted by: Yitzchak Goodman at July 18, 2008 3:19 PM

Just a bit of advice, but if you're going to bring up the Muslim SS divisions to bash today's Islamic community, at least know some of the basic history.

The Muslim SS divisions arose after the Bosnian Muslim community suffered horrific atrocities at the hands of Ustashi and Chetniks.

As for the divisions, they are best known for staging a massive mutiny in France that saw upward of 200 members executed by the Nazis and another 800 being dispatched to Dachau, supplying weapons to the Allies, and their rapid desertion to the same.

Of course Muslim units liberated Sarajevo and other major cities, so its not like they were all bad guys.

Posted by: I am so Wise at July 20, 2008 10:36 PM
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